Tom Krol has started up 2 extraordinarily successful businesses, earned and kept millions, and has helped thousands of new entrepreneurs start flipping houses through his built up publishing and coaching business, Wholesaling Inc. Today, He’s going to reveal his new mission in life: to dispel money myths that coaches and gurus aren’t even doing themselves… and get entrepreneurs on the right track with REAL working money management principles to grow and KEEP their wealth. He has long left and entrusted his coaching venture at www.wholesalinginc.com/ to other successful wholesaling coaches, and has now took on a new venture at T4 Freedom and he’ll reveal these myths and corrections to good money management principles that most people miss and the reasons why they end up broke.
TOM KROL: You have to understand that money is like a river, and when you are trying to hoard it, literally even if you can hoard it enough, you’re going to be miserable.
PAUL DOCAMPO: Welcome to another Deals Today interview, and I am your peculiar host, Paul, at RealEstateAudios.com. We’re bringing you Tom Krol today of Wholesaling, Inc., and I’m excited about this mainly because Tom Kroll is a big figure in the real estate business. He started PSL Homebuyers back when he was age 33. He’s 41 now at the time of this audio. He learned the art and science of wholesaling back then, and then he moved into coaching people into how to grow your own wholesaling business. It’s a very successful platform, a very well known platform, and does a very good job of raising up people on how to do their own wholesaling.
He’s moved out of that and into teaching people how to, not just grow their money, their income, but manage and keep that money, which is a deficit of a lot of people, even high-income earners. They just don’t know how to keep their own money. We’re bringing you that today, Tom Kroll of Wholesaling, Inc.
(0:01:16.4) This reminds me of the great Dan Kennedy, the great, famous Dan Kennedy and many of his No BS books, but one in particular is the time management book he has. I highly recommend that book. That one is managing your time, managing your resources, managing your customers, managing your vendors and your employees. All this is just a fundamental principle of business, and every week you need to take time to manage where your energy is going. Energy takes the form of money. It takes the form of time. It takes the form of interaction with customers, clients, sellers. Are you just wasting time or money? Is money being frivolously given where it shouldn’t be given? Can it be better placed in other allocations? I know this sounds a little esoteric, but bear with me here. Tom’s interview makes sense on this in that people just don’t know where their money is going.
The same with, not just money, but time. They don’t know where their time is going. They spend time frivolously talking at the water cooler when they could be engaging in a good book, engaging with a seller, engaging with a money lender, whatever it is. They could be engaging their time somewhere else. Instead, they’re wasting it at the water cooler. I get it. You need some time for yourself. You need some time to engage with people, but if 80 percent of the time is given away frivolously, there’s something wrong there.
The same goes with money. Every week I go into my finances. I look at where the money is going. I allocate the money that I’ve brought in. Where’s it going to go from there? By that, I’ve been able to incrementally save more and more money each year by doing so.
Enough with the antics. Let’s get to Tom Kroll and his money management tips.
PDC: Tom, you’ve built your wholesaling company, PSL Homebuyers. You’ve built up Wholesaling, Inc. coaching, and now you’re focusing on helping people with their finances, right?
TOM KROL: (0:03:13.0) Personal finance, yes. I was a wholesaler, and I sold my wholesaling business, my real estate business. I don’t do that anymore. I hit my goals there, and I now do have Wholesaling, Inc., which is a distribution company for a whole bunch of real estate authors out there who are just crushing it: Lauren and Chris and Brent and Raphael and all their people. That has been a great adventure. Yeah, the coaching business has taught me a lot about finance because I helped so many people make so much money, and they were all broke. They were still broke. They were earning 2, 3, 4, 500,000 a year, and they had a net worth below zero. I started to dive into this. I called them B-H-Es, Broke High Earners. I started to look into this, and I’m going, What the heck is going on? That kind of set me on that journey of personal finance, and I love it! I love it. It’s so amazing!
PDC: Why are these people broke? They’re such high income earners, but why are they broke?
TOM KROL: (0:04:14.2) First of all, there’s no one out there teaching them the right thing. No one out there. There are some great books. I’ve got some of them right here on my counter. These are my finance books, and there’s about 14 or 15 really good books that give you some basic fundamentals of how money works. The bottom line is everyone was breaking basic 6,000 years of recorded history rules about money. The coaches out there really weren’t congruent. A lot of the coaches who talk about money and how to manage it or how to keep it and how to grow it and how to make it, they’re not congruent, right? There’s one guy out there…I won’t say his name, but…
PDC: I think I know who it is.
TK: (0:05:00.9) Everybody knows his name. I think he’s a wonderful guy. I really do. I think he’s awesome. But the problem is not really the teaching. The problem is it’s not how he made his money. He has made mountains and mountains of money, but not by doing what he teaches. I think the problem was it’s easy to get up onstage and develop a course and become popular and hire branding and marketing and PR people and talk about money because some of the stuff out there sounds very, very logical. But then when you actually do a little bit of a deep dive, you found out this stuff isn’t working for the masses because it’s not really congruent with how these coaches made and kept and grew their money. That’s why, instead of recommending people, I just said let me start talking about what I’m doing and why it’s working. It’s so simple.
PDC: Do your rules to money management change from somebody who’s broke, has no money, and is getting into wholesaling, or are you focusing more so on high-income earners? Are the principles the same for both groups?
TK: (0:06:10.1) Absolutely identical! Yes, absolutely identical. Whether you are totally broke and just starting out and financially worth less than zero, which most people are, or if you are already a high-dollar earner or just starting to or even if you just have a regular income and you’re working for someone, the rules of money are fixed. They are not dynamic. They are absolute. They are proven. They don’t deviate from basic components and basic regulations. The rules of money are the same. When you follow them, it works not some of the time but 100 percent of the time, and it’s awesome!
PDC: You talk about myths to money management and finances. Can we talk about those myths?
TK: (0:06:58.0) Oh yeah. Oh brother. Let’s debunk some of the… The mountains of bad advice out there are endless. If anybody has ever flown cross-country and you cross the Rockies and you just see one peak after another after another, it is absolutely phenomenal. First of all, I can give your audience some real basic rules right now that are 100 percent applicable to everybody. If you guys want to cut through all the fat and stop learning and start earning right now, here are some basic rules.
Number one, any program that starts you off without giving some of that money away is the wrong program. I know I’m going to lose a lot of your audience right out of the gate, which is great because, when you have a real message, a lot of people are going to turn you off, but some people are going to turn you up.
The way money works is it’s not your money. First of all, let’s not tell anybody…shh…it’s not your money. You’re just the manager of that money. You are blessed by whatever you do, right? You are compensated, and then you are a good steward of that money. One of the big secrets is that the better manager you are of that money, the more you will be put in charge of. One of the rules of money is that it’s not yours. A portion of that money belongs to other people, the first portions.
Some of it belongs to the government, taxes, right? Paul, you and I both know, I’m sure, just off the top of our heads, entrepreneurial people who have made mountains of money and then played weird games with taxes and then lost it all because they were, “Well, if I don’t pay my taxes on time, I can make more interest than what it cost me in taxes, then pay it.” It doesn’t work, right? It doesn’t work. The first part of your money belongs to Caesar. Give unto Caesar.
The second part of your money, a portion of that money, belongs to God. It’s not yours. You’re not supposed to keep it. If you keep it, you’re stealing it. I know I’m going to lose a whole other group of your audience. I don’t care. Here’s the bottom line. You have to understand conceptually that most coaches, when they’re talking about money, they’re only talking about saving and budgeting. Budgeting doesn’t work because budgeting requires discipline. Discipline is like weight loss. It’s like dieting. Dieting doesn’t work. Most people, they get fat, they stay fat. It’s just the way it is. I’m sorry to tell you that if you’re overweight like I am. If you’ve already gotten overweight, your chances of losing weight and keeping it off are slim to none. So get used to the body you’re in and that’s just the way it is.
That’s the way budgeting works. That’s the way money works. Budgeting is a discipline. Anything that requires discipline or an outside force is difficult. If you start to apply budgeting to money, budgeting doesn’t work. Anybody who has tried to create a budget, they know it doesn’t work. I’m not telling you anything you don’t know. There are other things you can do besides budgeting.
Not focusing on making money. One of the biggest principles. If I could teach your audience anything, it’s this. You can spend yourself broke, but you will NEVER save yourself rich because money is an abundance mindset. If you just scrimp and save and are frugal and cutting coupons all the time, which are okay, but if that’s your main mentality, even if you can by some miracle put a million dollars in the bank, you’re still not going to be wealthy because you’re coming from a place of scarcity. That’s a mindset that won’t change no matter how much money is in your bank.
The bottom line, Paul, is everything out there is wrong about money. I mean literally almost every single thing you read and pick up and listen to online and YouTube and a 23-year-old telling me how to live off dividend income and scarcity, scarcity, scarcity. It’s no good. You don’t need the FIRE Nation. You don’t need a budget. There are ways to work with money that are good and honest and wholesome and easy, and they just work. They’re proven.
PDC: Now, when you talk about budgeting doesn’t work, what’s your definition of budgeting? Maybe we have different definitions.
TK: (0:11:15.5) Budgeting is trying to plan your future based on what you have now. I know people are going to go berserk when they hear this, but let me just say this. First of all, there are so many things that are going to change just tomorrow, forget even if next one year, five months, three years, whatever. The idea of my weekly gasoline budget is so silly because, if you need to drive to an appointment for the doctor or for a business opportunity, I hope you are going to break that budget of $50 a week or whatever it is for your car, and you’re just going to do what you need to do. My definition of budgeting is trying to plan out how you’re spending variable amounts of money.
What can you do instead? Tracking. Tracking is a great way to replace a budget. Tracking is really, really easy. Where did my money go is a way better question and easier to answer than where is my money going. If you’re tracking where your money goes, which you should be doing. That’s what a good manager of money does, and that’s what you are, right? You and I and all of us, everyone listening, is a manager of money. Whether you want to be or you don’t want to be, you are. Knowing where that money goes is a good discipline. That’s a good, healthy habit to get into.
Every week, like you and I said before this call started, every week you’re looking. I do the same exact thing. Every Thursday at 10:30 in the morning we have a quick meeting with the bookkeeper. All the money that came in that week, where did the money go? Movies, entertainment, gifts, holidays, cars, payments, insurance, whatever. In my decision, that is the best way to, if you want to call it budgeting. Knowing where your money goes is much more effective than trying to plan out how much you’re going to spend on Christmas gifts and to the penny on gasoline and things like that. I think that’s just silly. And it comes from a scarcity mindset.
PDC: From there you can adjust as you go. If you can’t track it, you can’t measure it, you can’t change anything in the future. You can’t adjust and change your lifestyle if you don’t know where it’s going.
TK: (0:13:26.2) Right. And that’s when money becomes all wrong. When you’re not tracking it…when you don’t know where your money goes, you are almost definitely going to go broke at some point because you’re not cognizant. You’re not being a good manager of it. It’s all emotional. And money is not emotional. The market doesn’t care how much money you lose. It doesn’t stop going down because Tom lost too much money in the market in real estate or the stock market or whatever. Knowing where your money goes takes the emotional component out of it. The people who go broke most frequently are the ones who are tying the most emotion to money. They are trying to fill something. They become hyperspenders or whatever it is, but what I’ve seen is those are the people who are going broke.
PDC: We’re getting into more of a deeper maybe things that happen in somebody’s past that affect their money management today. How do you fix that? Do you know what I’m getting at right here?
TK: (0:14:21.0) Yeah. For me, a really simple guy, I was broke for a long time up until the time I was 33. I’m 41 now. I will tell you that, for me, I didn’t particularly enjoy the subject of money. All of the systems in my life that helped me financially and with business and life are done for me. I try to make it as easy as possible. If a twelfth grader can understand my system, then I have a great system. That’s true for how I spend time with my children, how I run my businesses, how I hire people. If a 12-year-old can see my vision and then describe it to somebody else, you have got a win all day. That’s a win!
PDC: Your 12-year-old…you’re speaking about your children. You’re passing this on to your kids then.
TK: (0:15:11.8) Oh, 100 percent.
PDC: I’m a parent myself. I’ve got four kids. Tell me a little bit about how you pass on information of money management, entrepreneurship to your kids.
TK: Well, first of all, you’ve got to keep it really simple. The really good news about money is it’s really, really simple. We have a few steps that we follow. There’s about seven steps. They’re totally off the wall because this is not normal money. Here’s the secret. This is what works to not just earn money but also to keep it and to save it and to have it grow without you. That’s the problem with what’s on the market. That’s the other problem with what’s on the market is everything is either offense or defense. That would be like you keeping two calendars, a personal calendar and a business calendar. It doesn’t make any sense. You need one calendar. You need one way to relate to money.
(0:16:02.3) First of all, with money, if you’re going to go down this journey, you have to start by giving some of it away. Pick a charity. If you’re religious, you can say your church, your mosque, your temple, whatever, synagogue, but you have to understand that money is like a river and, when you are trying to hoard it, literally even if you can hoard it enough, you’re going to be miserable because money is the least important thing, not the most. It’s only a symptom of a condition. You want to seek the condition, not chase the symptom. That’s the biggest takeaway from all of this. Number one is you’ve got to give some away.
Number two is you’ve got to start reading every day. That’s off-the-wall money advice, right? If everybody listening to you right now could just sit quietly for a minute and just think about all of the people who have a lot of money…I’m talking about the top one percent or the half of the top one percent…every single one of them might look different. They might sound different. They might be different ages, different heights, different weights, different nationalities. They might have different accents. They might be different genders, but I can tell you they have one thing in common. Every single one of them reads. Not 80 percent of them. Not 90 percent of them. One hundred percent of them read. If you want to be financially free, and you don’t read…now, I understand if people have a learning disability, but let me just tell you this. Even if you have a learning disability like I do, a legitimate learning disability, and I was told I was an audio learner and a visual learner and all this other jazz. If you can read street signs, you can read a book. You can start with a paragraph a day. The more you read, the stronger your muscle will get. All rich people read. You can’t say I want to be wealthy and then not read books or listen to Audible. Audible is great too, but there’s nothing that replaces reading to really become a good steward of your money.
You’ve got to give. You’ve got to read. And then you’ve got to know your net worth. I call it taking a financial selfie. This is massive! Everybody in the industry I come from, which is real estate, talks about cash flow, cash flow, cash flow. I want to become a real estate investor, get a few rentals, and then live off the passive income. This doesn’t even exist. It’s not even true. There’s no such thing of that. But it sounds good because some of these people teach that. But you’ve got to take a financial selfie, and you’ve got to know your net worth. Cash flow is important. I’m not downplaying the role of cash flow, but so many cash flow investors are ignoring their net worth. If you are just focused on one and not the other, you are going to have problems later on. I promise you that you cannot just continue to go into debt and debt and debt and create cash flow and high risk without the idea of what professional people call capital preservation, but let’s just call it knowing your numbers.
PDC: What are the problems that happen with those who don’t preserve capital, that just focus on cash flow?
TK: (0:18:54.1) There are so many problems. First of all, most cash flow ends. Your lifestyle tends to adjust to your income, which is your cash flow,and then your cash flow can reverse in two seconds, especially if it’s in real estate, especially if it’s in some kind of a marketing funnel thing or whatever. But cash flow can reverse. If you’re in real estate and you have a million dollars of free-and-clear properties, you can have a bad season where a few houses… This happens all the time. Constantly I’m putting on… I own properties free and clear. I constantly have to go into my net worth and take out money to say, oh, this house needs a new roof. This one needs a new a/c. This tenant destroyed the property. This one put something weird in the toilet bowl and caused a major problem. Crayons, St. Bernards with urinary tract infections. How do I know this? Because I own property. If you don’t have the funds, the net worth, to maintain your passive, which there’s no such thing as passive in real estate investing, your cash flow can change, and your net worth is a safety net. Your cash flow should be building your net worth, not reducing it.
But, Paul, beyond that, most people don’t even know their net worth. They don’t even know what it is. They think their net worth is great. You have these new gurus out there that are teaching rent, don’t own. Six thousand years of recorded history say own the land that you live on, right? Then you find out that mostly the people who recommend this are landlords. They own like 700 doors or 7,000 doors, and they’re telling all these millennials to rent. Then the millennials go on YouTube and they talk about the mobility of renting. I can teach young people one lesson for sure. The definition of wealth is more and better options. That’s all wealth is. You can define that any way you want, but wealth will always come down to wealthy people have more options and a lot of those options are better than a poor person who has fewer options and all of those options stink. So if you want more and better options, own your own home. Buy it the right way. If you’re not sure how to buy a home, the best way to think about is two times your income to two-and-a-half times your income, 20 to 25 percent down. If you buy a home the right way, you’re in way better shape than a renter.
PDC: Yeah, I love it. I love it. Carry on if you have anymore. I was going to ask you. You mentioned that poor money management has generational consequences. I’m trying to wrap my head around that. How does that affect your future generations?
TK: (0:21:33.2) I think that…being a parent of five… We have Logan, Lacy, Lily, Lucas, and Levi, and then we have Luna running around here somewhere who is the laziest dog you ever met. One thing I can tell you about being a dad of five children is that they are 100 percent watching every single thing that you do. They are uber smarter than you think they are, and they will absolutely do what you do. It’s funny because, in some ways, wealthy people or high earners are worse than poor people because poor people don’t have the option. If you are spoiling your kids, wealthy people who have been generationally wealthy, the parents who are high earners and big hyperspenders, they spoil their kids and they talk negatively about the people who come from wealthy families who have been wealthy for generations, and they call them frugal or cheap or tightwads or they pinch a nickel until the eagle screams or whatever, but the bottom line with generational consequences is that your children are watching you. If you’re not paying attention to your money in a good, wholesome, honest way, that is going to absolutely affect your children 100 percent. It’s not even a question.
PDC: Yeah, yeah. I 100 percent agree. Your kids are watching. I have four kids of my own. They copy everything you do.
TK: (0:23:00.2) Oh, yeah. Forget it. Absolutely. In every way.
PDC: I totally agree.
TK: It’s important to really nail that down and make it fun. Robert Kiyosaki has a lot of great books.
PDC: Is that one of the authors you recommend for any financing books out there?
TK: I know Robert. I had the privilege of spending some time with him, and he’s a total rockstar in Arizona. If you haven’t read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, I strongly recommend it. A lot of the books I read over there on that shelf are by him. What I would say is that Robert is great at changing your perspective on what money actually is, and I think that’s really the core problem. Most people, when they’re born, they’re just never taught exactly what it is. I think that his advice, without any regulation on it, it could be…you have to make sure you keep everything in check. He’s a big proponent of debt, and some people aren’t as comfortable with that. I’m not personally, but I will say, of all of the authors out there when it comes to money, the greatest resources that have had the biggest, most profound effect on my life were The Richest Man in Babylon, for sure, and Robert Kiyosaki’s books. They’re just a game changer.
PDC: Yeah, I love it, man. Where can people find out more about you? I know I’m a subscriber to a website on money management, and I get the emails. Where do you want people to go to visit you?
TK: (0:24:21.3) Funnel tunnel, click 80 things, right? Nothing. Here’s the deal. We have a totally, 100 percent…this is not a marketing scam. You’re not signing up for anything. Here’s the deal. It’s 100 percent free. It will not cost you a penny. There’s nothing to buy at all. It is totally free, and it’s based on exactly what I do with my money, and it’s called T4Freedom. So if you go to T4Freedom.com, there is a totally free course. People in marketing throw out this term “totally free,” and then there’s a “if you want more, buy this.” There’s nothing like that. This is absolutely, 100 percent, totally free. There’s not an upsell. There’s not an “Oh, if you want to come and meet Tom, it’s $10,000” thing. This is just based on exactly what I did. There’s no fluff. There’s no BS. I’m building up the course. We stalled a little bit because attorneys had to get involved, and they’re like, “Tom, what are you doing? You’re giving financial advice? We need to write disclosures and disclaimers.” They’re working on all of that right now, so the course has been paused. But there are still about seven or eight or ten modules in there right now.
But it’s basically what to do with your money. You start off step one is write a check today to a charity or to a church or a synagogue or mosque or whatever. If you’re totally, totally broke, that could be a dollar, but it starts off by giving and it goes from there. It shows you how to think about money, that it’s not your money, that you need to be a good steward of your money if you want to be given more to manage. It really helps you define what money is and what money isn’t. It doesn’t just focus on making money, and it doesn’t just focus on something ridiculous like budgeting or having a scarcity mindset, which is silly. It’s just a really good, honest, wholesome course that is absolutely, totally free. There is nothing for sale. I want to say that because I know everybody says, “This is free,” or “Download this free guide.” This isn’t a free download. This is going to be the full course with nothing to pay for whatsoever. You can hold me to that. If I ever try to charge anybody, you can play this video and say, “You said…” I promise you guys you have my word of honor that this is totally free. I’m just doing this to help people and to get exposure for my other brand. The more people I help I know it’s good for us, for PR and stuff like that, but this is a free course in its entirety. There’s not going to be any upsells.
PDC: Awesome, man! Well, I get it. I was getting those emails, and I think they were just paused. I highly recommend them, so everybody join in on that.
TK: That’s a good point because… Another little point is that wealthy people have attorneys, and poor people make fun of attorneys. All the people making attorney jokes have a low net worth. The people who have a high net worth, the attorneys swoop in and are like, “Wait, wait, wait! Don’t do anything.” They are there to protect you.
PDC: There you go, man. I appreciate you being on here. Thank you so much, man.
TK: Absolutely. And thank you so much for having me on. I am humble to be on. I appreciate the opportunity to be a part of your journey, brother, on this. Thank you very much.
PDC: Thank you, man. Take care.
All right. That’s another episode in the can. Stay tuned for the next one and my marketing tidbits every single week on the Deals Today Podcast. Make sure you subscribe, you rate it, you review it, and you share it please. It keeps me going with this. It gets more guests on the show. If you’re not on my email list, go to RealEstateAudios.com and subscribe there to get onto my daily newsletter where I give daily mindset, business, marketing, copywriting tips all for real estate investors right there and any special gifts I’m giving away. Go onto RealEstateAudios.com.